Talk:Fraser Island

Former name or the other name?

Previously the article stated -> "Fraser Island, also known as "K'gari". I just edited it and changed it to "K'gari, 'formally' known as Fraser Island" since officially Fraser island is not its name anymore and likely to stay that way. People should be made aware it doesn't have two names but only one official name. And that Fraser island was the former official name. But feel maybe it needs to be discussed since it's a gray new territory here. Some context is the reason they changed the name was supposedly to get rid of the colonial stain given the life story of Eliza Fraser, who practically demonized indigenous people. So it's extremely unlikely the government will officially rename the island back as "Fraser island" ever again. Nvtuil (talk) 08:26, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

The name Fraser Island remains official and the primary name. It is not the former name at all. See my comments on the move discussion above. If you are going to make claims about such things, point to evidence for what you claim. This is an encyclopedia, citations needed! Kerry (talk) 15:21, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

I think you meant 'formerly' not 'formally', but, more importantly, I think a change to the lead sentence should follow the move, not precede it. Tkanus ^dialogue 00:58, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

The Islands name has never formally changed from Fraser Island, It's still in the public consultation phase. [1] Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 23:01, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Time to update the name.

Since 2011, K’gari has been recognised as an alternative name for what was Fraser Island, but now the latter has been dropped entirely.
K’gari was originally known by Europeans as Great Sandy Island before it was changed to Fraser Island, after Scotswoman Eliza Fraser was shipwrecked there in the 1830s.
The name had been deemed culturally inappropriate as Fraser wrote a debunked negative tale of her “captivity” by the Butchulla people, who she called “savages” and “cannibals”, after the shipwreck. The lies spread throughout the English colony despite being contradicted by fellow survivors.
— https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jun/07/fraser-island-no-more-kgaris-official-name-change-corrects-a-historic-wrong

Pandapod1 (talk) 08:56, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

In light of this news, the name of the article should be changed. Jmbranum (talk) 11:51, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Sincere edits of this page to correct the misuse of 'Fraser Island' as the place's name are being undone/reverted without proper reason. The name of this place is officially 'K'gari' since June 2023, and its former name, and the name that some people know it as, is 'Fraser Island'. Stating it like this is consistent with other like renamed places - Uluru. There is a racist and colonialist background to defending the use of Fraser Island as the 'correct' name that is extremely harmful and the user 'Ash' needs to stop reverting attempts to better the situation to suit their own agenda with improper reasoning behind doing so. 165.85.11.116 (talk) 05:05, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Respectfully, whoever you are, it is not racist to recognise Australia's colonial and indigenous history, together, side by side. It is Australia's history. Many people have grown up and know the island as Fraser. To not recognise this is harmful to society as a whole. Nobody is saying its the 'correct name', just the alternate name. Take a lead out of New Zealand's book. They use both English and Maori words in their signage, vernacular, books and so on. We could do the same here. But to say the colonialist name for an island is racist, is by itself incredibly racist. Ash Kuss (talk) 17:53, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

The complaint is 'There is a racist and colonialist background to defending the use of Fraser Island as the 'correct' name, which is legitimate. Naming is an ownership tool and one of the first things that colonists did to claim/enable ownership of Australia. The complaint is not talking about not recognising the colonial name (it literally says the opposite), nor saying that Indigenous history and colonial history are somehow divisible. It is legitimate to claim that it is racist for someone to defend a colonial name as the correct name OVER the Indigenous name when it is the official name. Many locals, including me, still call it Fraser Island. I am making a conscious effort to change this and it doesn't help when people insist that its name is Fraser Island just because locals use that name. Us locals also call McDonalds 'Maccas' but that's not its official name. This page should be called K'gari. 117.20.69.180 (talk) 08:45, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

It sounds as if you are trying to label me as racist and colonialist (?) for defending the use of Fraser Island as the 'correct' name, which is a strawman argument. I have never made such claims, so you should probably retract your accusation. I believe Fraser is just as legitimate a name as K'gari. If someone wants to call it K'gari, okay, if someone else wants to call it Fraser, great. Just don't correct them and insist they use the other name because the one they're using hurts people's feelings. Also, it's odd that you seem to have negative attitudes towards colonialism, seeing as you are free to express your opinions and live in a nation that has come about as a result of it. Ash Kuss (talk) 17:42, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

100% in agreement mate. I go to "Straddie" not "North Stradbroke Island" - but I wouldn't expect to find the page called "Straddie".

But seems people are only happy with Australia being a majority democratic nation, when it suits them. Fourixxxx (talk) 04:59, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Straddie is a shorthand name or nickname for North Stradbroke Island, not an alternate name, there's a difference. Fraser is an alternate name to K'gari, and the former happens to be the one many still prefer. The government consulted a vocal minority on the name change and then didn't bring it to the people of Queensland before changing it. Instead, they just went ahead and did it. I'd say that's undemocratic. Ash Kuss (talk) 03:08, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

1. Citation needed for Fraser being the "one many still prefer".

2. The article itself talks about the open consultation process; you haven't provided any evidence that it is limited in participation to the "vocal minority". If you felt so strongly about this issue, you should have campaigned against the name change and motivated by the silent majority you believe are against the change.

3. The Government doesn't need to put every minute issue to a referendum for it to be democratic. We live in a system of indirect democracy, where it is understood that the Government holds a mandate to enact changes that don't affect the (state) Constitution. If you don't like this, feel free to criticise it and vote for the other guys next election. But you can't call it "undemocratic".

4. The official Government name is K'gari. Fraser isn't even dual-recognised. That alone is sufficient to change the page name to "K'gari (Fraser Island)".

5. Note that if you were consistent in your arguments (about colonial history being valid history etc), you would support changing Uluru's page to "Ayers Rock" and have the first sentence be "Ayers Rock, officially Uluru...". I'll leave it for you to reflect on why this is absurd, and consequently, all your arguments reduce down to an absurdity and thus can be discarded. LStravaganz (talk) 16:03, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

1. Nope. This is a conversation thread, not a wikipedia article, and I am referring to something that is common knowledge. So even if you shout "Source! Source! Source!" it can't be deleted as that would be edit warring and can lead to sanctions.
2. It actually doesn't. It was a closed consultation on Fraser Island and likely only people of a certain heritage were listened to by the current state government, certainly not the people of Queensland. So yes, it was 100% undemocratic.
3. Usually the state would put a proposed change to the people, because uhh.. uhh... accountability. A referendum or plebiscite is a federal government matter, so it doesn't really apply here. A proposed change was not put to the people of Queensland so again, it is 100% undemocratic.
4. Look on literally any article about Fraser/K'gari on a mainstream media source (channel 9, 7, 10, ABC, SBS, news.com, etc.), which is usually some non-news story about a kid who gets bitten by a dingo, and you will see a slew of comments from Queenslanders saying it's still Fraser to them.
5. Lol, solid strawman argument, loving the use of projection and non-sequiturs (not really). You're asserting that I would agree with all that has happened in Australian history (I don't). You're claiming that Ayers Rock was renamed back to Uluru during the colonial period (it was 1993).

You can keep huffing and puffing about why you think I'm wrong cobber, I actually don't mind the use of both Fraser and K'Gari. It seems to be the state government who wishes to erase Anglicised history, which is actually racist. Ash Kuss (talk) 06:30, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

I'll keep "huffing and puffing" so long as you insist on doing the same. A bit strange for you to call the kettle black on this.

1. Actually, K'gari is the name many prefer, and since this is a "conversation thread", I needn't supply proof and you just have to accept it.

2. A simple Google search will reveal that the state government received 6000 submissions from different stakeholders, including the public. If you cared about this issue enough, maybe you should have engaged with this process.

3. Actually the State does hold referendums, because the State has a Constitution. Bit embarrassing you don't know this mate.

4. Don't really care what random Facebook article comments says. K'gari is the official name.

5. It's not a strawman argument, because I'm asking you to defend changing Uluru's page in order to consistently apply your stance.

Overall I hope readers of this thread can see very clearly your absolute ignorance of even basic stuff (see Point 3 for a particular egregious case of Dunning-Kruger syndrome), and as such realise that no weight at all should be lent to your drivel. LStravaganz (talk) 09:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

1. Lol, 6000 submissions ,which may or may not be from Queenslanders, is by far, a resounding minority since our population is over 5 and a half million. I can't have engaged in the process if it was an open and closed case that the state government wished to waste its time and our taxpayer dollars on.
2. I know that a referendum is on proposed changes to a constitution whether state or federal. A name change generally doesn't fall into that camp. The state government still should have been accountable to it's 5 and a half million constituents instead of 60,00, but it's probably less than that let's be honest.
3. You don't care about what Queenslanders have to say about Fraser Island? You only care about what the loud minority have to say? How sad and small-minded of you!.
4. Nope, you're projecting an illogical non-sequitur. Some people still do call it Ayers Rock, some people call it Uluru, and that's a source coming from their territory government. So why is the Queensland state government so busy trying to legislate Anglicised names out? That's actually racist.
5. As to your last paragraph, buy a mirror. Walk away, learn something productive. The rest of us will take it from here (and will call the island Fraser). Good day.

Ash Kuss (talk) 08:49, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

1. No response to this, thanks for conceding that K'gari is actually the name most people prefer.

2. Actually 6000 submissions is an incredibly high number of submissions for any public consultation process. Clearly the other 5 million QLD'ers didn't care enough to make a submission, so it's not like their absence should count as "no" votes.

3. Backpedal as hard as you want mate, you were just straight up wrong before about referendums, which you thought were a federal-only matter. No shame in admitting you learnt something new from me here.

4. I do care about what QLD'ers have to say, and the overwhelming number of them clearly didn't care enough to make submissions, or wrote in supportive submissions.

5. Again, you need to defend changing the name of Uluru's page to "Ayers Rock", or "Ayers Rock (Uluru)" in order to stay consistent to your stance of preventing the erasure of Anglicised names, which you consider racist. You have yet to provide a statement on where you stand on this. If you persist in refusing to take a stance, then I can only conclude your position is hypocritical and thus safe to be ignored.

6. Bit rich asking me to "learn something" when you literally didn't know QLD can hold state referendums. Maybe come back to me after you graduate from a primary-school social-studies class, and then we can talk. LStravaganz (talk) 11:57, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Not only that, but most media outlets (including Murdoch media) and businesses on the ground use K'gari (see list on voy:Talk:K'gari). Only Ash Kuss is claiming that most Queenslanders favour the old name. SHB2000 (talk) 10:22, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Nope. It's already been acknowledged that many Queenslanders on the comments section of news media posts still prefer Fraser. Ash Kuss (talk) 05:38, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

The commons section of news media posts are not a reliable indicator as the demographics of such commentators tend to be skewed. It's just as good of an indicator as going to X (formerly Twitter) or Reddit. --SHB2000 (talk) 01:41, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

1. No response because your argument is intellectually dishonest and it's not worth the energy.
2. 6000 submissions is a lot if over 5000 of them were possibly created by bots. We don't know who or what those submissions are,;that information is not available on public record. Either way, the change shouldn't have happened without the say of all Queenslanders. It's good that you concede that most Queenslanders don't care because you're acknowledging that the name change was unnecessary and most people just want to get on with their lives. By default, this is a no, as in, no change because it doesn't matter. By your reasoning, in their "absence" (strange wording as there wasn't anything to attend), it definitely wouldn't count as a yes.
3. Referenda are typically a federal matter and are usually not carried out by the state. Even if it were, the state should have had an open consultation with all Queenslanders, which is not a referendum. A referendum, as acknowledged, has to do with matters regarding its constitution, which bears no relevance to an unnecessary name change, so it's bizarre that you even bring it up.
4. Read what you said slowly: "the overwhelming number of them clearly didn't care enough to make submissions, or write* in supportive submissions.", which would, by default, be a no. Otherwise, you would read the room and respect the general attitude, whether you agree with it or not. Clearly, the Palaszczuk/Miles government hadn't respected this, which is sad and wrong.
5. You're continuing with your nonsensical strawman argument, I see. The burden of proof is not on me to defend Ayers Rock over Uluru. It has already been acknowledged that the Northern Territory Government refers to its national park by both names. The Queensland state government is not consistent with this by dropping the Anglicised name Fraser for its island. Therefore, the burden of proof is actually on the government to explain why they went ahead with their nanny-state decision, which is inconsistent with many dual named places around Australia.
6. Thanks mate, you've just indicated to everyone where you haven't graduated from. The adults will take it from here, and many of us still call the island Fraser. This clearly triggers you so I suggest you grow up first. Then we can talk.

Ash Kuss (talk) 06:32, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

If you have to resort to dishonesty and fear with "over 5000 of them were possibly created by bots", I'm not sure if your take on this is credible at all. --SHB2000 (talk) 01:42, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

If not, then we don't know for sure who or what comprises those submissions. Therefore, my suggestion that it could be bots is not dishonest or fearmongering. Seeing as you're talking about no personal attacks, I'll throw that one back at you. If the submissions are available, I'll happily concede the point. Ash Kuss (talk) 09:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

No personal attacks, thank you. --SHB2000 Ash Kuss (talk) 09:06, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Why was I pinged? SHB2000 (talk) 09:17, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Are the submissions available for public viewing? Ash Kuss (talk) 09:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Also, speaking of Uluru/Ayers Rock, they still use the dual names. This is because Uluru being a noun in the Pitjantjatjara language doesn't have an English translation - so the Anglicised name remains. Neegzistuoja (talk) 19:31, 11 June 2024 (UTC)