Talk:Friedrich Zander

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Name[edit]

The are no direct evidences that the patronymic Arturovich (or perhaps Arthurovich) was part of his original (German) name. But most Russian sources say he was a Soviet pioneer of rocket science. I am not an expert about German people living in pre-Soviet, Soviet or modern Russian times, but I guess his name was spelled during his life with patronymic. Another questions is - was he really from an ethnically German family? If this is true, then all Russian sources should say so. But I couln't find any relevant statement. I've just added his patronymic according to Russian sources. I know for some Germans who lived inside Russia and they have used patronymics too, so I can't see why Zander did not. Best regards. --XJamRastafire 12:04, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)

A couple of on-line references to Zander's German ethnicity: European Journal of Physics, Latvian Institute.
Note that this also explains the transliteration issues: the initial "Z" in German is pronounced like a "ts", which is why the name was transliterated "Ц" in Russian. When the English-speaking world first learned about him, they didn't know of his German heritage, so transliterated the "Ц" as "Ts", as usual.
When he was using his name in Russian, I'm sure that he used a patronymic as well, which is why I agree it should be left in the Russian version of his name, but I don't think it belongs in the German version. Probably only his baptism certificate could really prove this one way or the other!
I'm sure we both know reasons why Soviet sources (and maybe Russian ones now) keep quiet about Zander's ethnicity! I'm sure that during his life he probably kept pretty quiet about it too... --Rlandmann 10:12, 21 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Is there any evidence that Tsander ever spelling his name in German fashion? He was born in Latvia, and was probably of mixed ethnicity. It is odd to change the spelling based on some notion of German race. 66.235.17.97 05:22, 19 January 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is wrong. Just because someone is an "ethnic German" doesn't mean you can change the spelling of their name. My Grandmother's name was Crouse, but we don't change it to Kraus because she was descended from Germans. So, I'm going to change it and see how that flies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DonPMitchell (talkcontribs) 01:42, 1 March 2006

This german spelling of his name still bothers me. Maybe his family spelled it this way sometimes in private. His diploma from Riga is in Russian, all his work on rocketry took place in Moscow where he lived in Russian society. Historians spell his name "Tsander", not "Zander". The article should at least point this out, becuase people will become confused, if they search for more information on "Zander". DonPMitchell (talk) 00:46, 30 August 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Germanizing names[edit]

Why is Tsander's name transformed into a German spelling? It's particularly incorrect to change the spelling of his middle name, which is a Russian-style patronymic. And if his grandfather was named Konstantin, it is not clear he was even purely ethnic German. Do we even know if his family spoke German or spelled their name in that fashion?

This was inappropriate and non traditional. The German and Latvian spellings could be mentioned at the beginning, but it is very peculiar to spell his name "Zander". DonPMitchell 02:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've softened my opinion about this issue, finding that Zander kept his personal notes in German. I still believe he clearly embraced the Soviet Union as his home, so I think it is also fair for Russians to call him a "Soviet". And Latvia can have their rocket pioneer too. Racial origin, national origin, and citizenship all being different, it is an abiguous situation. DonPMitchell (talk) 17:45, 20 June 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Big Update[edit]

I did a pretty extensive rewrite of this article, adding information and fixing some mistakes (GIRD-10 was not the tenth try at a rocket, for example, it was one of 10 projects underway in four different brigades). The Russian wiki page had a better structure and more information, but I also pulled new information out of some aticles in the AAS History series and in Asif Siddiqi's paper "Deep Impact" which discusses the 1920 'space fad' in Russia. DonPMitchell (talk) 16:41, 20 June 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Light Sail?[edit]

I'm not sure Tsander talked about a light sail. He definately talked about focusing solar heat to increase the exhaust velocity of a rocket. The use of solar energy in space was also discussed by Goddard around 1916. Perelmann definitely discusses the idea of using light pressure as propulsion in space, in his 1915 book "Interplanetary Journey". DonPMitchell (talk) 02:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

nevermind, just found his discussion. He proposed a 100,000 m**2 by 1/1000 mm thick foil sail to use light pressure. This is in one of his early "Overflight to the planets" lectures. DonPMitchell (talk) 18:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Corrections[edit]

Was Kondratyuk involved in the Society for Interplanetary Travel? I do not believe so, he contacted Vetchinkin in 1925, and I don't think he was known to the Moscow rocketry people before that. DonPMitchell (talk) 16:43, 4 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

"ДИПЛОМЪ" vs. "ДИПЛОМ"[edit]

I would strongly suggest to remove that reference to that fishy diploma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_talk:TsanderDiploma.jpg

--84.130.226.165 (talk) 14:13, 14 May 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Russian spelling was quite different in pre-revolutionary time, particularly in more extensive use of the hard sign. I'd hesitate to act on this person's suggestion, particularly since he is anonymous and offers no other evidence that Tsander's diploma is fake. DonPMitchell (talk) 06:22, 17 December 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well I see he removed it. I'm not going to bother to restore it, but I don't believe this person knew what he was talking about. Particularly since he didn't seem to recognize pre-revolutionary spelling. DonPMitchell (talk) 06:28, 17 December 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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